The Pattaya bridge club web site has a page of common bridge questions (FAQS) where many frequently asked questions are answered. I get lots of e-mails asking various questions about bridge bidding and other aspects of the game. So I have also set up this post; if you have a general bridge question then simply click the ‘comments’ link below and ask it. Your query will appear on this website immediately and I’ll answer it within 24 hrs.
The Pattaya bridge club also has a number of interesting pages that answer many questions. To know if a bid is forcing (in Standard American or Acol) check out Is It Forcing. The When RHO doubles page give you the standard meanins of bids when partner opens and RHO makes a take-out double. There is also a page specifically on doubles – take-out, panalty or what? And what does a 3NT rebid by opener mean?
Tags: ., bidding, bridge, bridge questions, cards, games, queries, questions, recreation
Pattaya Bridge Club Weblog 
October 4, 2007 at 1:38 am |
Is forcing stayman commonly used to force to a game ‘without’ a four card major?
October 4, 2007 at 1:43 am |
Interesting question, Velbert.
There are a few versions of ‘forcing Stayman’ around, and as far as I know they all promise a 4-card major. I have personally never played forcing Stayman (and never will). I play Garbage Stayman together with 4-way transfers and SARS. Thus a 2 club response to partner’s 1NT opening does not guarantee a 4-card major because I play:
(a) 2 clubs may a simple raise to 2NT which cannot be bid directly because I play 4-way transfers and a direct 2NT is a transfer to diamonds.
(b) to get a SARS sequence going to find out about partner’s shape and his minor suit distribution. (1NT – 2c – 2d/h/s – 3c asks about shape when playing SARS).
The ACBL says that in the sequence 1NT – 2c – 2d/h/s – 2NT, the 2NT bid needs to be alerted if it does not guarantee a 4-card major (i.e. playing 4-way transfers). But apparently 2c does not need to be alerted if it does not guarantee a 4=card major. As is often the case, the ACBL have no idea what they are doing. In my opinion a 2c bid that does not promise a 4-card major needs to be alerted immediately, but I suspect that the ACBL thinks as much about my opinions as I do about theirs.
If opps play normal Stayman then 2c does not guarantee a 4 card major (usually because they play 4-way transfers) but the 2c bid currently does not need to be alerted as possibly no 4 card major (an alert is only required if responder subsequently bids 2NT)
Sorry I cannot give you a direct answer to your specific question, and I suspect that you won’t get a sensible one from the ACBL either.
November 6, 2007 at 2:24 pm |
East/West won a game. Then N/s won a two-game rubber. Does e/w lost the 300 points they would normally receive for winning a game?
November 7, 2007 at 3:04 am |
Re: Rubber bridge scoring.
When E-W won a game they scored 100+ (the score for the game) above the line and became vulnerable. E-W have not scored 300 (or anything) extra yet. When N-S subsequently won two games they won the rubber. They thus get 500 points for winning the rubber 2 games to one. E-W get no bonus for their game but decrease N-S’s bonus – they would have got 700 if they had won the rubber 2-0. There is a section about rubber bridge tactics on the main website
November 11, 2007 at 11:16 pm |
Can you advise me on how I can keep up with what cards are played? I can count my trumps easily enough, but I just cant keep up very well with the other 3 suits. Are there some pointers you can give me to help me?
Thanks so much.
November 11, 2007 at 11:17 pm |
Is there an opening bid that conveys that you have 16-18 points but not a no trump hand? Thanks so much.
November 12, 2007 at 3:49 am |
Hi Catherine.
If you play Acol (with strong twos), Benjamin Acol or Precision Club (or a number of other bidding systems) there may well be be a bid to show such a hand. But playing Standard American there is not. It really is no problem; you open your longest suit and then rebid your 2nd longest. If the longest is lower ranking then that would then be a reverse, showing around 16+. If the 2nd suit is lower ranking then you can only jump if your hand is worth game opposite partner’s response.
If your two suits are equal length, say 5-5, then always open the higher ranking and then bid (or jump) in the lower ranking. It is a mistake to open the lower ranking and then reverse into the higher ranking ‘to show points’ as this shows the wrong shape (a reverse is longer in the first bid suit).
November 13, 2007 at 2:43 am |
Regarding keeping count of all of the suits: this is basically a skill that is probably genetically inherited. The vast majority of bridge players are capable of counting trumps but not all of the suits. Those lucky enough to have the gift of being able to memorize all four suits are mostly very advanced or expert players.
Some people are amazingly gifted and can memorize the complete sequence of a deck or two of shuffled cards. Such gifted people often count the cards at Blackjack and eventualy get banned from the casinos when they win too much.
Most moderate – good bridge players strain to count more than the trump suit. The only help I can really offer, and which may be as important as having the ability to count all of the suits, is to signal count when defending. My partner and I give attitude leads when one of us leads a suit but always (unless it is likely to help declarer) give count when declarer is leading.
January 6, 2008 at 9:14 am |
Searching the internet for the answer to my question about rkcb I happened upon your web page.
Can you advise me?
I held this hand, x A KQJxxx KJxxx
Partner opened 1C so I launched immediately into 4NT on the assumption that it set clubs as trump. (Slow auctions would create problems in themselves, I may have difficulty in setting clubs in a forcing situation. ie one which would demand a cue bid or which could not be passed! I wanted to be sure that it was club key cards that we were talking about.)
I planned to pass 5D, which could only be one, not four since I have two myself.
Partner bid 5C, 0 or 3. Clearly I needed to know. If he had 0, I was already out of my depth but that is no reason to give up on the grandslam if he has three. I am prepared to invest an extra undertrick, a relatively small cost, in finding the grand slam if it is there.
Partner could hold an aceless fourteen and the only game is three no trump. But to sell out at that level with such a magnificent hand seems wrong to me. I am prepared to take this very small downside risk in search of what may be a laydown grand slam.
So what I want to find out is, does he have three, and if so, does he have the queen.
How do I do this?
I will keep partner’s hand to myself, until I have heard from you.
George
January 6, 2008 at 9:25 am |
Hi George
Your problem raises a few interesting points.
First of all, if you are playing Standard American then partner may possibly have only three clubs and clubs may not be the best strain. Anyway, let’s assume that partner has got a club suit, then you may well be too high using RKCB.
Actually there is a convention that solves this problem – meant for exactly this type of hand. It’s called Baby Blackwood and is described in the conventions section of my site; it only asks for aces and has no ambiguity. But hardly anyone plays it and you cannot find out about the club queen!
So, let’s get down to the actual bidding – you bid 4NT and got a 0 or 3 response. You have a real problem now as 5 diamonds would be asking for the trump queen. There is no solution playing basic methods unless you splinter as I suggest at the bottom of this page.
There is always a potential problem with any type of Blackwood when a minor suit is trumps and one popular treatment is that 4-of-the-minor is RKCB. Partner would bid 4D (0 or 3) and you sign off in 5c which partner corrects to 6C if he holds three keycards. With three keycards and the club queen he should correct to seven clubs.
Other possible solutions are to play inverted minors (so you can set clubs as trumps in a forcing scenario) or to play Kickback but you will get too high when partner has no keycards as you will necessarily be at the 5 level.
The best bid with the hand you actually held and your system is to respond 3S to partner’s opening. This would be a splinter agreeing clubs and if partner held two or three aces he would show slam interest with a cue bid of his cheapest ace (not the trump ace).
Suppose partner’s hand was:
Axxx
Jxxx
A
AQxx
The bidding should go
1C 3S
4D 4NT
5C 5D
5NT 7C
Where 3S is a splinter, 4D shows the AD, 4NT is RKCB, 5C is 0/3 (but obviously 3 in light of the previous cue bid), 5D asks for the trump queen and 5NT acknowledges the trump queen but denies a king (6C would deny the trump queen and you would pass)
January 6, 2008 at 9:33 am |
Thanks for your comprehensive answer. I gather you must be the writer of the RKCB feature.
You have answered my main question. Is there a way of finding out if the response is 0 or is it three? And I gather there is not. I still wonder if any of the many versions in circulation does allow it.
I am not a gadget freak myself, the antithesis thereof. I once played Kickback. Never again. All these apparently safe ideas invariably have a downside. I cant remember them all now but in a five session event there were three misunderstandings!
I like splinters very much but I dont think they have much value over 1C, and I have thought about it, for the very reasons you set out. Given that you need five card support to even consider splintering they are extremely rare indeed, even then there may be better contracts than clubs.
I would be prepared to give up splinters over 1D too, making 4C available as Blackwood (Gerber) over each of those opening bids but it is sufficiently rare that I think I will leave things in the haze that they are in now.
Now to the real hand.
Only in hindsight did I bid 4NT, in fact I bid 1D and over my partner’s 1H I was in the dilemma I spoke of. 4NT presumably would now agree hearts and 3C would not even be forcing. So I took the bull by the horns and bid 6C.
The full deal was
x
A
KQJxxx
KJxxx
Jxxx
KQJx
10x
A9x
January 6, 2008 at 9:41 am |
Hi George
So the first sentence in my reply was spot-on, partner did not have a club suit.
But I am confused – your partner appears to have one keycard! Anyway 4NT as RKCB at any stage always gets you too high. That is why it’s common to play 4-of-the-minor as RKCB. I would splinter (3S) and when partner backs off, settle for 5c.
Incidentally, I would not open your partner’s hand (it does not conform to the rule of 20).
If he passes the bidding could go
pass 1d
1h 2c
2s(1) 3c
pass or 4c or 5c.
(1) Where 2s is 4th suit forcing, primarily asking for a spade stop. 5c is a reasonable contract (needing only to find the cQ) and a club partscore should score reasonably well as many will be in 3NT going down.
February 12, 2008 at 7:48 am |
if a player wins all 13 tricks is that a grand slam , regardless of the bid. in particular, i made a contact of three no trumps (thinking i could win nine tricks), but ended up getting all 13 tricks. is this still a grand slam?
February 13, 2008 at 3:54 am |
Hi David.
No, a slam is only a slam if you bid it. If you bid 3NT and make all 13 tricks then you score 220 + the game bonus (but not a slam bonus).
There is a booklet on scoring that explains this sort of thing on the website http://www.pattayabridge.com > scoring at bridge. It is a pdf/word doc document that you can simply read or download/print for free. Or you can click on http://www.pattayabridge.com/scoringweb.doc to access the word doc pages directly.
March 12, 2008 at 9:27 pm |
Sitting East, after dealer’s (North) pass, I hold Kxx, K10, AQxx, AQxx and open 1D. My partner holds Qxx, A, QJxx, KJ9xx. We play inverted minors, so she responded 2D. I bid 3C to indicate club stoppers. She raised to 4C. I decided she must have no major stoppers and signed off at 5D. We made 6D, and the hand would also make 6NT. How should we have bid the hands to get to one of the slams?
March 13, 2008 at 1:05 am |
Hi Ellen.
The problem lies in your 3♣ bid. First of all, stoppers should be bid up the line and so 3♣ does indeed deny a stopper in both major suits and your partner’s 4♣ bid was correct. But you have stoppers in all unbid suits and so should bid NoTrumps rather than bidding stoppers. The other problem in your auction is that partner never knew your strength.
I assume you play a strong NoTrump, then a 2NT rebid would be 12-14 and a 3NT rebid 18-19. You should simply rebid 3NT to show your strength and stoppers in every suit.
Partner would then go on to slam in whichever minor suit you elected to open. I would open 1♣ but many experts do advocate 1
♦when 4-4 and it makes little difference in this case.March 13, 2008 at 5:03 pm |
Thank you so much for the analysis. I knew I should have been signaling my eighteen points but didn’t know how after my partners’s 2D bid.
March 15, 2008 at 8:50 pm |
My partner bids 1 Nt, I respond 2H (transfer), partner says 2 S, I bid 3S. What does my bid tell partner. We play transfers and Texas Transfers as well over 1 NT. thanks. Barbara
March 16, 2008 at 3:33 am |
Hi Barbara.
Your 3♠ bid is invitational promising 6 ♠’s.
After partner has completed the transfer, the following holds:
2NT = 5 ♠’s and invitational
3♠ = 6 ♠’s and invitational
3NT = 5 ♠’s which partner will pass or correct to 4♠
4♠ = 6 ♠’s, to play.
Any other suit bid = at least 5-4 and game forcing.
4♣ = Blackwood/Gerber
4NT = quantitative.
Jacoby Transfers are covered in more details in the conventions section of the web site.
March 27, 2008 at 7:27 pm |
Browsing , looking for answers, and I come across your interesting site. My question is: North bids 2 Clubs; East overcalls 2 Spades; must South bid? (Her hand was S:Axxx; H:xx; D:Jxxx; C:xxx – 5 points). If using step-responses 2 Hearts isn’t enough; if using the waiting bid, she has to bid 3 Diamonds. I look forward to your reply. Many thanks – Margo
March 28, 2008 at 1:38 am |
Hi Margo
When partner’s 2♣ opening is overcalled you are under no obligation to bid. Generally speaking and lacking any other agreements; pass is a negative, double is penalties and a bid shows a positive. If you play step responses then you would have to agree as to how high they apply after an overcall. Obviously you could still play them after a one level overcall but probably not over a high level overcall.
April 2, 2008 at 11:05 am |
I would appreciate it very much to have your opinion on the following question:
What are recomended ranges for multi-landy vs 15-17 HCP No Trump?
(I guess that your answer would apply for other conventions (when we have 2 suited hands)).
April 3, 2008 at 1:22 am |
Hi Michael
The general range for Multi Landy and similar defences to a strong NoTrump is about 9-15, depending upon shape. With 15-17 one would generally double. With 18 or more you can also use Multi Landy (to strong to double – partner will doubtless pull it).
This is also applicable against a weak NoTrump.
April 7, 2008 at 1:08 am |
My partner and I use Super Negative, where a 2H response to a strong 2C opening signals a very weak hand. My partner opened 2C and I held: JT, xxxx, xxxx, Qxx. I bid 2H to show a weak hand. After long deliberation, my partner bid 2S, which I passed. He ended up making 6S! His hand: AQxxxx, AKJx, x, AK. Should I have bid differently? Thank you for your time.
April 7, 2008 at 3:15 am |
Hi Justin.
In my opinion your bidding was perfect. You have said you are nearly bust and partner signed off in 2♠. With 9 1/2 – 10 playing tricks your partner was at fault. He should bid either 3♠ (which you would raise to 4♠) or else bid 4♠ himself. 6♠ is not a good contract and partner must have been very lucky to make 12 tricks, 4♠ is where the hand belongs.
April 7, 2008 at 1:41 pm |
Distributional Hands:
I have such trouble bidding the distributional hands, I have heard about the trick losing method to know how high to bid. Could you send me some info on this please.
April 8, 2008 at 3:57 am |
Hi Joy
First of all, the Losing trick Count (LTC) is really meant as a guide for how high to raise partner when he has opened one of a major.
There are two main points to consider with distributional hands: –
(a) how high to open or overcall with your distributional hand.
(b) How high to raise partner when you have a fit
(a) is generally covered by the Rule of 2,3,4.
(b) is generally covered by the Law of Total tricks.
Both of these are covered in the website, with word doc printouts available. Probably easiest is to go the ‘Abbreviations and terminology’ link in the links column and both pages are easily accessed from there.
July 1, 2008 at 7:01 am |
Hi,
What convention would you recommend for weak shapely hands as opener?
Thanks,
Roger Boyar
Los Angeles, CA
July 1, 2008 at 7:30 am |
Hi Roger.
There are a few conventions you might like to consider.
Some players play that an opening 2NT is the same as an Unusual NoTrump, showing at least 5-5 in the minors and weak. However, I don’t really like this as 2NT really is needed for the strong balanced hand.
So onto more popular stuff; the obvious ones are weak twos which are pretty standard these days.
Another possibility, popular in Holland, is the so called Rainbow convention. This involves playing an opening two diamonds as Multi, including weak twos in the majors. Two hearts and two spades are then Muiderberg, showing a weak hand with five cards in the Major opened and 4 or 5 cards in an unspecified minor.
If you want a more complex scheme involving all sorts of weak openings, have a look at D and A twos, in which all two-level suit openings are either weak or strong.
Regards,
Terry Quested
July 25, 2008 at 12:17 am |
what does it mean when someone says they play “four way transfers”?
July 25, 2008 at 2:36 am |
Hi Judy
4-way transfers are an extension of normal Jacoby Transfers. 2
♦and 2♥ are still used as transfers to 2♥ and 2♠ resp. but in addition 2♠ is a transfer to 3♣ and 2NT is a transfer to 3♦.Playing 4-way transfers has repercussions elsewhere. For example the 2NT response is no longer a natural invitation and a 2♣ Stayman bid no longer guarantees a 4-card major. The complete scheme for 4-way transfers is written up on the web site.
October 19, 2008 at 4:59 am |
When partner raises a bid in his own suit does this require a response?
October 20, 2008 at 4:13 am |
Hi Grayce.
In most situations – no. A simple rebid of your own suit in non-forcing.
For example. 1h – 1s – 2h.
or 1c – 1h – 1s – 2h
Both of these are non-forcing.
Also a jump is usually just invitational.
For example 1h – 1s – 3h
or 1c – 1h – 1s – 3h are both passable.
But there are exceptions and it depends upon the system you are playing.
Playing Standard American the sequence 1h – 2c – 3h is forcing, this is because the 2c bid in SA promises 10+ points. Playing Acol this sequence is just invitational.
December 6, 2008 at 5:29 pm |
If I am responding to partners one heart opening bid, and I have 15 points and four spades – do I reply one spade or 1nt?
December 7, 2008 at 2:04 am |
Hi Veronica
You should respond 1S – never (or hardly ever) deny a 4-card major. 1NT would, in any case, show 6-10 points and your hand is too strong. You did not give me your hand, but bid 1s and then make a forcing bid or bid game – 4h if you have 3 hearts (if partner promises a 5-card heart suit) or else 3NT.
December 20, 2008 at 8:32 pm |
re your page: “All about the 2NT bid (Standard American is assumed) item 6.
take a bidding sequence with no interference; 1D, 1H, 1S, 2NT – it appears 2NT = 11-12 points
But if partnership uses the SAYC direct 2NT over a 1 of a minor opening as having a stronger point range than 11-12, is 2NT in the above indirect sequence still 11-12 or does it require stronger point range?
Thanks for your help
December 21, 2008 at 3:50 am |
Hi Paul
2NT in the sequence 1d – 1h – 1s – 2NT should logically be exactly the same as 1d – 2NT, except that the latter denies a 4-card major. In strict SAYC that would be 12-14, but very few actually play that and the vast majority of players (even though they say that they play SAYC) play 2NT by responder (in either sequencr) as invitational. This anomoly is actually pointed out in the recent book on SAYC by Ned Downey.
February 11, 2009 at 8:34 pm |
I dealt and had the following
AKx diamonds
AKx clubs
AKx spades
AKQx hearts
Other than a laydown of 3 nt, what would be my opening bid and my parteners response to get to a 6/7 slam?
I turned out that my partener had the other 2 queens.
February 15, 2009 at 9:12 am |
Hi Larry
Interesting hand! You should clearly start with a 2♣ bid but what you have to avoid is ever bidding 3NT as partner will surely pass.
If you play Benjamin Twos or the Multi Two Diamonds then you can open your strongest bid and rebid 2NT which is then game forcing. If 2♣ is your only strong bid, then play the Kokish Relay, which enables you (after 2♣ – 2d – 2♥ – 2♠) to bid a forcing 2NT.
Anyway, you should have a forcing 2NT bid available in your bidding arsenal to allow partner to try Stayman or transfers with a poor hand but some shape.
If partner transfers to show 5 ♥’s then you can bid 6♥ and if partner bids Stayman and there turns out to be a 4-4 ♠ fit then bid 6♠. If partner does nothing (i.e. bids 3NT) over your forcing 2NT bid then you should try 4NT. This surely shows a huge hand and partner should bid 6NT with a queen and a bit of shape.
I cannot think of a sensible way to ask partner how many queens he has.
February 27, 2009 at 7:56 pm |
please can you give me details of your 6 table mitchell movement.
many thanks
March 1, 2009 at 2:08 am |
Hi Eileen.
The 6-table Howell is not totally satisfactory and you do not meet two pairs. Thus the 6-table Mitchell. Mitchell movements with an even number of tables are tricky – you need a relay/share or a skip. Obviously it’s a relay/share with only 6 tables – with tables numbers 1 and 6 sharing and a relay table between tables 3 and 4. I’ll send you movement cards by e-mail. You can have 24 or 30 boards. As a Mitchell is much quicker than a Howell I always play 30 boards.
March 28, 2009 at 1:42 am |
Please help. When someone opens for their partnership with 4 Spades what does that mean? They had 8 spades and 16 points but that is confusing to me. First it’s a close-out and secondly, isn’t that a pre-empt? (8 spades with 10 or less points). Please help…
March 28, 2009 at 4:22 am |
Hi Debbie
Yes, I agree. 16 points is a bit much for a four spades opening which should be basically pre-emptive.
There are various ways do bid such hands. Strong (Acol) twos or Benjamin twos. But with an 8 card major (especially if short in the other major) I prefer to open the auction at a higher level and the solution is to play Namyats. Then this 16 pointer can open 4 diamonds which shows a good 4 spade opener. A 4-spade opening can then be very weak and most definitely pre-emptive.
April 28, 2009 at 1:30 pm |
In our retirement community we have a variety of experience levels. This does however create some very difficult situations in establishing a larger groupof tables. Some insist on playing with specific partners (in order to play various conventions etc.) while others do not ever wish to “upgrade their game” with those confusing conventions. It is a retirement community – remember.
How can we mix these two groups of players into a common scoring method, in order that we can all play together – moving and mixing our play and our friends ?
Thank you.
May 1, 2009 at 5:20 pm |
Inasmuch as I/we have not received a response to our earlier e-mail, we’ll assume that we were not sufficiently clear in our query.
Thus, restating, we need to be able to make up a group of tables where some of the players request that they be able to compete and move as team pairs. Not a problem – except that there are other players who insist on being allowed to compete and advance as individuals
Therein lies the rub – how to mix these two groups to enable all to play at the same time, either with duplicate boards or equally divided numbers of hands per table sitting.
We need a workable response, please.
Thank you.
May 2, 2009 at 2:37 am |
Hi Richard. I’m not sure that I completely understand the question, but here goes. I assume that some wish to play in the normal Howell novement but some wish to play amongst themselves (say 1 or 2 tables) and perhaps get tuition/guidance? When I had this problem, I had a mitchell movement and so boards always over. The 4 beginners sat at their own table and simply played boards not in use at their own pace. If you have more players, so a Mitchell movement then you can do much the same but the odd table(s) would have to share boards with one of the normal tables. I hope this helps.
Regards, Terry
May 31, 2009 at 1:48 pm |
What does a redouble of a negative double show?
June 3, 2009 at 1:06 pm |
Probably the best use for the redouble of a negative double is the ‘Rosenkrantz redouble’. It shows a top honour (A or K) in partner’s suit. This can be very useful if you end up defending as he will know that a lead of his suit is safe (and there is also the information if there is no redouble that partner does not have a top honour).
June 5, 2009 at 8:30 pm |
If you bid Convenient Minors and have a hand with 4 spades, 4 hearts, 3 diamonds and 2 clubs, do you HAVE to bid the diamonds rather than the clubs to open? (14 points in hand) I prefer the clubs so that I can guarantee 4 diamonds if I bid that suit.
June 6, 2009 at 4:23 am |
Hi Neva.
I agree that playing a ‘short club’ is a better system and I like to open 1c when 4432. This is no problem if you agree it and write it on your convention card or else alert the 1c opening as ‘could be two cards’. However, if your convention card says better minor then you are obliged to open a 3 card diamond suit rather than a two card club suit.
July 29, 2009 at 4:16 pm |
First of all , you made me very happy with the excellent NT book.
Many thanks for that.
Question about the strong 1nt book.
two bidding sequences
1.1NT 2Cl 2H 2NT invite without spades. non forcing
1.1NT 2Cl 2H 2S invite with spades. non forcing
now reverse these sequences and you get.
1.1NT 2Cl 2H 2NT invite with spades. non forcing
1.1NT 2Cl 2H 2S invite without spades. forcing
The last sequence is forcing now so you can input much more hands to it. Redefine last sequence in ; invite (without spades) or better ( than spades possible).
If 1NT opener has minimum then the only answer is 2SA. After this a strong responder can bid 3Cl . SARS .
If opener have maximum after 1NT 2Cl 2H 2S he must give answers like SARS. ( more space to give your distribution)
Pro ’s
You can start SARS 2 steps lower. So you can be more precise.
You get the information of minimum or maximum more quicker.
You free up the 3Cl (SARS) bid , that you can use for something else.
So I think this is better and also not complicated.
Have I overlooked some bad things ?
greetings,
Wop de Vries
August 2, 2009 at 4:22 am |
Hi Wop, thanks for the input. Interesting idea and certainly playable if you and your partner agree.
However, 4-way transfers are fairly common and I give the standard approach. The main advantage is that if opener is weak he can stop in 2s rather than being forced to play in 2NT or 3s. Fairly often a 2s contract on maybe a 4-3 fit will be the highest playable spot.
September 18, 2009 at 2:32 pm |
If someone brings a card into the playing field but does not take his hand off the card and the next player lays down a card, can the player replace that card since he did not remove his hand?
September 19, 2009 at 2:27 am |
Hi Dorothy
Whether a card has ben played on not is not really affected by whether it is still in your hand. The official definition runs something like this – a card is played if it is placed on or near the table in full view of everybody. So to answer your question, you cannot remove the card even if it is still in your hand if it has deemed to be played by the above definition.
September 26, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
In the bidding sequence – Opener 1c, pass, 1spade, pass, 2c, double, 2d,
Is the 2d bid forcing like new minor? My partner states that new minor is off after the double. I state that bidding one of the doublers advertised suits cannot possibly be to play.
What is the thinking on the above bidding sequence?
Thank you
September 27, 2009 at 4:23 am |
Presumably the double shows both red suits. I would play 2d as looking for 3NT. I play that is shows a diamond stop and asks opener to bid NoTrumps with a heart stop (2NT if min, 3NT if max) but you could play it the other way round if you wish. The 2d bid is focing and should show invitational values (+-11) or better.
September 26, 2009 at 2:08 pm |
When partner responds to an opening bid in “reverse” order, I contend that responder needs to have sufficient points to require opener to go to the preferential level. My partner disagrees. Comment please.
Bidding sequence 1 diamond, pass, 1h, pass
2 diamond, pass 2s, pass.
What is point level/shape requirements for responders bids?
September 27, 2009 at 4:26 am |
Hi again Art
The new suit by responder is forcing for one round. In this sequence it promises 5 hearts, four spades and at least invitational values (+-11). Of course it could well be much better and more shapely but it always shows more hearts than spades.
September 26, 2009 at 2:09 pm |
I sent two previous comments and forgot to check the E-Mail response. I would love an E- Mail response.\
Art Bonneau
September 27, 2009 at 4:28 am |
Hi Art
I just replied to your two queries and they are on this post. I think that WordPress automatically sends you an e-mail?
September 30, 2009 at 10:32 pm |
Please tell me the meaning or convetnion if I bid 1 spade and p bids 4 diamonds but he was void in diamonds
September 30, 2009 at 11:48 pm |
This is generally played as a splinter, agreing spades and showing at least opening values and shortage in diamonds (could be singleton or void). There is another convention, the Mini Splinter, where a bid of 3d shows a singleton and a bid of 4d shows a void.
October 11, 2009 at 9:50 pm |
What is the penalty if defenders renege when a certain suit is played?
October 12, 2009 at 2:30 am |
Hi Geraldine.
Generally speaking, the penalty is two tricks if the defender won the revoke trick and one trick if he did not win it.
October 31, 2009 at 2:33 pm |
I want to know if there is an anomaly in the way match point scores are determined by Scorebridge at Pairs in situations where:
1. there are two sections playing unequal number of boards (i.e. 20 on one section and 22 boards on the other); and
2. one section has a sit-out pair where the other one does not; and
3. all results of both sections are merged to arrive at the final ranking.
I seek both mathematical as well as the logical explanations because I believe that the system seems to be unfair. Any help you could provide to convince my club would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much
November 1, 2009 at 6:33 am |
Hi Fundi
I agree that this does not seem right. If there are two separate sections then that is two separate competitions (even if the boards are the same, the opponents are not). In my opinion there should be four winners – N-S and E-W for each section. Anything else is unfair.
November 6, 2009 at 6:52 pm |
My partner and I have started to use kickback, but have found that we are not firmly in agreement as to whether it applies in certain auctions. In particular, my partner feels that it should be off in an auction where the kickback suit has been bid naturally during the auction. For example, the bidding went:
1H-1S
3C-4H
Partner felt that 4S should not be Kickback in this sequence; I am of the feeling that 4S cannot be natural in this sequence, and so should be kickback. Are there any hard and fast rules that should apply?
November 17, 2009 at 3:07 am |
Hi Jeff,
Hard and fast? I guess so – if 4NT would be Roman Key Card Blackwood when playing normal RKCB, then Kickback applies when playing Kickback and so 4s is definitely Kickback in your sequence. The sequence is game forcing and if responder wants to play in hearts then he has to bid 3h and later 4h. This has a slight downside in that a direct 4h would presumably show little slam interest playing standard and you lose this bid when playing Kickback. But, every conventional bid loses something (the natural meaning of the bid).
November 6, 2009 at 7:57 pm |
At a duplicate game I was dealt the following hand: AK Spades, AKX hearts, AKJ10X diamonds, AKX clubs. My partner had two points, XXX spades, XXX hearts, XX diamonds, QXXXX clubs.
Would you please suggest how the bidding should go after 2C – partner bids 2D? I did read your response to Larry on February 15, 2009 and wondered if the bidding would be the same?
Thank you in advance for your reply. gerry
November 17, 2009 at 3:28 am |
Hi Gerry
Interesting hand, how to bid 29+ HCP hands is not that well documented and this deal demonstrates why using 2h negative (see conventions > Responding to partner’s strong 2c opening) is superior to bidding 2d and then 3c as a double negative. Playing this scheme a possible sequence is 2c – 2h – 3d – 4c – 6c. The 2h response shows 0-5 points and no ace. The 3d is now game forcing in the knowledge that responder may be bust. 4c shows his suit and meagre assets and 6c is to play unless you want to try for the grand with Josaphine.
December 3, 2009 at 12:33 am |
must a player declare if he is bidding a strong 2 bid or a weak 2 bid?
December 3, 2009 at 12:36 am |
must a player declare whether his 2 opening 2 bid is a strong bid or a weak one?
December 3, 2009 at 1:25 am |
Hi Jean
Your opponents are intitled to know what you are playing. What needs alerting varies from club to club and country to country. It’s probably safest to alert all two-level bids. At our club we alert only the unusual – weak twos are standard and we do not alert them (only alert strong twos) but I do not think that this is standard policy worldwide and the rules keep changing year after year and it’s almost impossible to keep up with the latest alert procedures.
December 13, 2009 at 5:02 am |
It varies from club to club and country to country, and even from time to time – the rules keep changing! But if you fill in a convention card there’s no problem.
December 14, 2009 at 8:28 pm |
I just noticed an inconsistancy in the No-Trump book. In section 4.2 which describes handling a major-minor two suiter with 4-suited transfers, examples 8 and 9 are given. In each of these examples, West has the same hand, and the east hands vary.
When East held hand 1, West bids 4 hearts to play in the 4-3 heart fit after the 1NT-2S-2NT-3H sequence. However, when paired with East 3, which includes a 6 card club suit, West bids 4C to explore for slam after the same opening sequence.
I see know reason why West’s bidding should vary at this point depending upon what East holds. I would sure like an explanation.
February 20, 2010 at 6:32 pm |
partner opens with 4 clubs looking for aces. I was told that a no trump bid must intervene before the 4 club convention could be used . please clarify.
February 21, 2010 at 7:00 am |
A 4 club opening is not usually used to ask for aces. It does not come up too often, but a 4NT opening is generally used to ask for the suit of partner’s ace if he has one.
4 clubs is generally used to ask for aces after partner’s last bid is NoTrumps – There is a page on the website: conventions > Section 3 > Blackwood or Gerber? That gives my suggestions as to when 4 clubs asks for aces and when it’s 4NT.
A 4 club opening is usually pre-emptive with clubs unless playing Namyats (also described on the website).
March 21, 2010 at 1:44 am |
How do you respond to partner when your hand holds six clubs, two diamonds, one spade, and 4 hearts. The bidding opened with a one diamond bid, I responded one heart, partner bid one spade. I have 8 pt’s and have a good suspicion that clubs should be our contract. How do I bid it without getting too high? Partner had 13 pt’s. What is my bid?
April 4, 2010 at 10:42 am |
Hi Shari
Unfortunately it is not possible to play in clubs at a low level playing standard methods. 2c by you now would be 4th suit forcing and I would play 3c as a splinter agreeing spades. The only real choice you have is to bid 1NT and hope that that is a decent spot.
April 14, 2010 at 7:34 pm |
In the course of play declarer reaches across to dummy and draws a card out not releasing it. Is he allowed to change that card ?
April 27, 2010 at 11:23 am |
Hi Ron
It is usally best for declarer to call for a card. However, if he wishes to play dummy’s cards himself then the touched card is deemed to me played if it is moved
April 27, 2010 at 2:03 am |
How do I bid a hand with 6 spades and 6 clubs? The singleton is a deuce of hearts. AK of spades and A empty clubs. Just eleven high card points but incredible distribution.
Shari
April 27, 2010 at 11:36 am |
Hi Shari.
There are options, you could pass and wait to come in with a descriptive two-suited overcall later. But I would open 1 spade. I don’t like a 1 club opening as you will probably never get the message across to partner that you have six spades.
May 15, 2010 at 2:01 pm |
I AM HELPING A NEW PLAYER. THE QUESTION CAME UP…. HOW DO I KNOW IF MY PARTNER HAS A LEGITIMATE OPENING BID OR IF SHE HAS OVERCALLED?
May 16, 2010 at 4:12 am |
Hi Polly
When partner open you know that he generally has 12+ points, but an overcall is different. At the two level it should be about an opening hand, but at the one level it could be as few as seven points. If you like his suit and want to make a constructive raise (say with 11+ points) then the best method is to use the ‘Unassuming Cue Bid’ which is a bid of two of opener’s suit. This is far better than inviting with three of partner’s suit as that may be too much if partner is minimal. So using the Unassuming cue bid you can stop at the two level and direct raises to 2,3 or 4 of partner’s suit are best played as pre-emptive. The Unassuming cue bid is described in the conventions section of the website.
September 12, 2010 at 7:56 am |
Hi Polly.
Opening bids are usually 11+ points, as are overcalls at the two level; but overcalls at the one level may be weaker – 7 or 8 points. So when partner overcalls at the one level you have to be carefull with hand worth game or an invitation opposite a full opener. The best approach is to use the Unassuming cue bid to describe a good raise, this is described in the conventions section of the website http://www.pattayabridge.com
May 27, 2010 at 5:39 am |
RHO opens 1 club ahead of me. What is the most discriptive bid to my partner with a five card spade suit headed by the jack, 17 points and 5-3-3-2 distribution? Clubs were AQx, diamonds AJ, hearts KQx. I said 1 NT, but others at the table said that was incorrect. Is it more valuable to show your 5 card major or your point count when you are making a direct seat overcall?
May 27, 2010 at 7:12 am |
Hi Shari.
I guess the three options are 1 spade, double and 1NT. I certainly would not double as the hand and suit are not good enough to double and then bid spades. A 1 spade overcall is possible but this is a poor suit and does not show the generally balanced nature of the hand. With these club stops I think that your chosen bid of 1NT is easily the best bid. It may be up to partnership agreement, but I have no problem with opening or overcalling 1NT with a 5-card major, especially with a poor spade suit like this.
June 10, 2010 at 9:48 am |
I dealt,
KJ5
KQJ98653
9
J
and bid 4H. Partner bid 5C. What should I bid?
June 20, 2010 at 5:10 am |
Hi Stance, sorry for the delay in replying.
The answer is that this is up to partnership agreement. I cannot see that partner can sensibly be wanting to play in 5c and i would take this as a cue bid agreeing hearts. Bur why did he not try Roman keycard blackwood? Maybe he has a void somewhere? (other than in hearts i hope). It would be interesting to give his actual hand, i suspect that it was a silly attempt to remove you when he was short in hearts – am i right?
July 25, 2010 at 8:13 am
Qx
A10
AKxxx
AQxx
This was the hand opposite, and assuming that we are agreeing H, then this showed a slam going hand but concerned for 2 Spade losers.
I think a very clever bid, and I should have bid 6H.
Another question, Playing NAMYATS, surely the weak option shoud ask partner to play the hand, to protect unguarded Kings. I believe that is called Reverse Namyats, and makes far more sense.
July 24, 2010 at 3:43 pm |
You have 29 points….do you open with 3NT or 4NT which will force your partner to bid in Blackwood? (obviously, everyone else has passed)
July 25, 2010 at 6:44 am |
Hi Jo
With a huge balanced hands there are various options depending upon system. It would be nice to have the actual hand.
Some do play a 3NT opening as 25+ but I don’t like that as Stayman/Transfers are difficult and I prefer a 3NT opening as gambling – a long solid minor with nothing outside.
A 4NT opening is different and is usually asking for specific aces. If you hold something like AKQJ10xx – AKQ KQJ then if partner has no ace or just the HA you want to be in 6S, if partner has the CA you want to be in 7S, if partner both aces you want to be in 7NT; and the 4NT opening gives you the answer.
So, assuming that your 29 point hand is not suitable for the 4NT (just need to know about aces) opening then some do open 2c and rebid 3NT so show a very big hand – but I don’t like this either as it also precludes Stayman and Transfers.
But there are a number of good options, all of which are described in detail on the website.
Probably the most suitable is to play 2H negative to show a virtually bust hand in response to a 2C opener. Other good options are Benjamin twos, Multi 2D and Kokish relay – all of which allow a 2NT rebid to be forcing andthus allow Stayman/transfers.
September 13, 2010 at 1:17 pm |
I know that the NT book recommends responding 2S after 1NT-2C-2H with 4 spades and an invitational (or better hand). I recently got to wondering if it might be advantageous to reverse the meaning of 2S and 2NT in this sequence (so 2S denies 4 spades and 2NT shows 4 spades) so that the hand does not get “wrong sided’. The most obvious downside is that you cannot stop in 2S, but with an invitational hand, 3S would not seem that bad, espeically since the opening lead is coming into the big hand. What are your thoughts on this variation?
September 19, 2010 at 8:53 am |
I agree that it is usually better for the NT opener to play the hand and your proposal has some merit, but I am reluctant to have to go to 3s when 2s may be the limit opposite an unsuitable opener.
September 29, 2010 at 7:15 am |
The declarer plays from the board the next player plays and the declarer plays the fourth player says you played from the board instead of your hand. What is the rule and penality or is it too late??
September 29, 2010 at 12:27 pm |
Hi Ivan
You got it right at the very end – it is too late. Once the next player has played a card then any lead out of turn by anyone is condoned.
October 6, 2010 at 5:41 pm |
Hi: Recently, my right hand opponent opened with 4 diamonds. I knew she had a long diamond suit, but only assumed she had opening hand. Her partner became flustered but bid 5 diamonds in response. The opening bidder made 5 with the help of her partners’ hand. After the hand was played it appeared that the opening bidder only had about 15 points. I feel that this is not a good way to bid the hand as it does not tell her partner how many points she has. I also feel she should have opened with a bid of one and then jumped to 3, or perhaps just say 5 diamonds. What do you think.
October 7, 2010 at 1:48 am |
Hi Mary
A 4D opening is usually played as pre-emptive and 15 points is far too good. Your two suggestions (open 1D and jump to 3D or open 5D) seem best. I would need to see the actual hand to say which is best.
February 16, 2011 at 12:49 am |
My partner’s opening bid of 1 of a minor is overcalled with 1nt. What would I bid if I was a passed hand or if I wan’t. I had 5 hearts and 9 pts
February 16, 2011 at 2:55 am |
Hi Claire
Generally speaking it’s the same whether you are a passed hand or not, a two-level bid is weak (may be very weak) and to play and double is usually played as the only strong bid. It looks like 2H by you would be fine.
March 21, 2011 at 12:40 am |
I know that when I have 6 clubs and 5 spades that I am to bid my clubs first. Is it the same procedure for 6 diamonds and 5 hearts?
April 6, 2011 at 12:48 am |
Hi Shari
Yes – you usually bid the six card suit first when 5-6 and ideally then bid the 5-carder twice to show the shape. However, if the is quite weak and n or worth three bids then many will opn wih the 5-card major.
April 6, 2011 at 12:15 am |
Please let me know where you score if someone renigs? Do you score above the line or below?
April 6, 2011 at 12:52 am |
Hi Mickey
If someone renegs at bridge then there is nothing to score on a rubber bridge score sheet. At the end of play the penalty (usually one ot two tricks) is made and the tricks made thus adjusted. This adjusted score is then entered on the score sheet (below the line if the contract is still made and above the line for the opponents if the contract goes down) .
April 6, 2011 at 12:17 am |
what do you mean moderation?
April 6, 2011 at 12:55 am |
Moderation is a term used by wordpress. It stops spam or unwanted posts. The moderator (owner of the site, so me in the case of Pattaya bridge) can approve the post (as I have with your two) or delete them as he wishes.
April 18, 2011 at 5:55 pm |
I was playing a hand and a card was stuck behind another. I hand 3 d and only thought I had 2. The lady playing the hand was surprised when I put on a low club and said I thought you had another d. I then found the diamond. She said right then that it was a renig and then she got 2 tricks. I had heard that 2 tricks needed to be played to count as a renig. Could you explain what the rule is to me.
October 24, 2011 at 4:13 am |
It is an established revoke if the next trick has started.
If discovered before the next trick then replace it with the correct card and the card played is a penalty card – there is no other penalty.
If it is an established revoke, then the opponents get two tricks only if you won the revoke trick, otherwise they get one.
June 4, 2011 at 8:46 am |
A query was made at a table recently concerning a Stop bid. Dealer opened the bidding with 1H, left hand opponent bid 2D and opener’s partner bid STOP 3C. It would appear that this meant a strong hand but bidding 3C the STOP was not necessary. How should this bid be dealt with if at all? Our director was unable to offer an answer when called except to say it may need to be treated as an insufficient bid. Is it possible to advise the correct procedure.
Thank you for your time.
June 4, 2011 at 9:23 am |
Hi Norman.
Assuming that the 3c bid was strong and natural I would rule that no harm is done as the 3c bid should have the same meaning whether there was an overcall or not. But if a jump to 3c with no overcall would have another meaning (weak jump shift or mini splinter or Bergen raise or something else) then there may have to be an adjusted score depending upon whether the innocent party were disadvantaged. The 3c bid should stand (no need to jump to 4c) and, basically, if responder had a strong club hand, no problem; if something else then maybe an adjusted score depending upon what happens.
June 4, 2011 at 11:25 am |
Thank you very much for your prompt reply.
July 25, 2011 at 4:54 am |
In rubber bridge, are revoke penalty ticks scored above the line, or below the line and can therefore count toward ggame?
July 25, 2011 at 11:38 am |
Hi Sarah
Tricks earned via a revoke are exactly the same as normal tricks. Say you are in two spades and make seven tricks, but there was a revoke by the opponents and you are entitled to two extra tricks. Then that is the same as making 2s + 1 and so you get 60 below for making 2s and 30 above for the overtrick.
August 23, 2011 at 8:09 am |
Is a double still forcing following a redouble?
October 24, 2011 at 4:09 am |
Hi
No. After a redouble your side is probably in trouble – bid a 5-card suit if you have one or else leave it to partner.
November 4, 2011 at 4:55 am |
If a game finishes with the scores level is it a drawn game or a win to the partnership that won the rubber? I am new to bridge, just playing it on the computer and this situation hasn’t come up but I am curious as to what the rules are in case it does. For example both partnerships are vulnerable and the scores are 600 and 1200 and the team with 600 bids 3 NT and gets it exactly (no extra tricks). They then get the 100 points for 3 NT and 500 for winning the rubber 2-1, which leaves both teams on 1200.
November 4, 2011 at 11:32 am |
Hi Galen.
I’m afraid that I do not really understand the question. Rubber bridge is a game for four people and usually played for money. There is no concept of winners or losers, just how much (money) you win or lose. If the rubber ends up as a tie, then you win/lose nothing.
November 16, 2011 at 9:54 pm |
Rubber bridge
Q1: I bid 1 Spade. opponent bids 2 Spades. What is he telling or asking his partner?
Q2: Opponent bids 1 Spade. My partner bids 2 Spades. What is he telling or asking me?
jh
November 17, 2011 at 2:00 am |
Hi jh
Q1: In the early days of bridge a direct cue bid (like 2s over a 1s opening by an opponent) was used to show a very strong hand. But this came up infrequently and most now play it to show a two-suited overcall. Typical is the Michaels cue bid where it shows h’s and a minor.
Q2: Isn’t this the same question?
January 8, 2012 at 4:27 pm |
Is there anything un-toward in this bidding sequence?
West bids 1NT announced by East as 12-14pt. PASS throughout by N/S. 2D from East announced by W as a transfer to Hearts so West bids 2H. Now East bid 3C followed by W 3D and this was passed out.
January 10, 2012 at 4:02 am |
Hi Norman, so the sequence was 1NT – 2D – 2H – 3C – 3D – pass
Yes, this sequence is very disturbing. Assuming reasonable level players the 3c bid having transferred shows 5 hearts and 4-5 clubs and is GAME FORCING. 3D is open to interpretation but a possible sensible meaning is that it is showing a diamond stop and asking partner to bid 3NT with a good spade holding.
I assume that responder actually held a club-diamond two-suiter, in which case you are entitled to an adjusted score because of the incorrect announcement.
I said that a ‘possible sensible’ meaning for 3D was showing a stop, but responder is known to have at most four cards between diamonds and spades and in this situation opener normally bids 3NT with decent holding in diamonds and spades or else bids 4H. If 3D was bid just in case partner had forgot the system then you again get an adjusted score and opener should be reprimanded.
January 10, 2012 at 4:20 am
I think you overstate whether the questioner is entitled to an adjusted score. When there is MI (mis-information), the question is whether the non-offending side was damaged. Would NS have bid differently had they the correct explenation? Would they have defended differently? If the answers to these questions is no, or if the difference in bidding or play would have not have changed the score to the bene fit of NS, then and only then is there damage. And only if there is damage should an adjusted score be awarded. Now, if the EW in question do this consistantly, a procedural penalty might be appropriate, but that is a change to their scire only.
January 10, 2012 at 5:08 am
Yes, perhaps I should have said ‘may be entitled to an adjusted score’ – but this is always up to the director who may award no adjustment, o it really is a matter of wording. But I do not think that i overstated anything in my last paragraph, if opener bid 3D in case partner had forgotten the system then that is cheating as he is obliged to go to game, he had to have a good reason to bid the very unusual 3D.
January 10, 2012 at 1:56 pm |
Thank you for those very informative comments. Your help is much appreciated.
January 10, 2012 at 6:22 pm |
After reading your response where you bring up the issue of UI (cheating), this would indeed increase the likelyhood of an adjustment being due. But suppose the agreement (clearly stated on the convention card) is that they are no playing transfers, and it is opener who momentarily forgot. Responder, weak with the minors, has bid properly, and if opener now remembers that they are not playing transfers, his return to diamonds is appropriate, and I don’t think they are in forcing sequence. (I could be wrong) But then he should have explained to the opponents that his prior announcement was in error. The accusation of cheating without all the facts is inappropriate.
January 12, 2012 at 4:58 am |
Hi again Jeff.
I feel that there is little point in continuing this discussion as no hands were given and we were not informed of their agreements.
Most players play that a new suit after a transfer is game forcing. But if not playing transfers and opener momentarily forgot then 3D bid is acceptable I guess. My previous responses assumed they were playing transfers.
The rules on what we do know are fairly clear:
a) If the bid was correct but the announcement incorrect, then there may be a penalty.
b) if the bid was incorrect but the announcement correct, then there is generally no penalty.
So only the initiator of this discussion knows the answer.
July 11, 2012 at 12:40 am |
Is there a particular strategy in playing in a 7 card trump suit? I don’t mind if I am below game, but get very upset when I have been put in game thinking my partner has 4 trump. I find them to always be 4-2 or 5-1. I can’t seem to talk my partners out of putting me in these predicaments, so I guess I better learn to play in them. Any advice would be appreciated.
July 11, 2012 at 6:38 am |
It is helpful to have bidding agreements that keep you out of these predicaments. But when you find yourself in one, you must try to avoid ruffing in the hand with 4 trumps. If you can get a side suit established, reduce the contract to no trump by drawing all the trump. You will likely want to delay drawing trump until your tricks can be established elsewhere..
August 11, 2013 at 4:07 am |
When the play is over and declarer is a card shy, discovering that 2 cards stuck together at trick 3, is it considered an established renig? If declarers decide they would have taken the same tricks with or without this card, isn’t there still an established renig? The contract was 3 hearts making 4. Our side was defending and taking 3 tricks after trick 3. Our director was uncertain about the ruling. She decided since declarer was sure she would have taken the same tricks with or without the extra spade, and that it would not have made a difference, she would let the results remain at 170.
July 14, 2015 at 7:48 pm |
South has made an opening bid, West passes. North removes the Pass card from the bidding box and places it on the table. Some seconds later he says, “I didn’t see that my partner had bid,” and proceeds to remove his Pass card and make a responding bid. Should this have been allowed and if not, what should the correct procedure have been, presumably after the director has been called?
Your view would be appreciated.